Lou is Sweet. But Does He Belong In Cooperstown?

Lou Piniella, manager of the Seattle Mariners for ten years including the record setting 116 win campaign of 2001, was inducted into the Mariners Hall of Fame over the weekend. During several of the local broadcasts leading up to the event, Root Sports ran segments from an interview with Piniella in which the question was asked if, in addition to the Mariners HOF and the Cincinnati Reds HOF, Sweet Lou should one day find himself inducted into Cooperstown? Piniella gave the typical athlete/coach/manager answer, saying it would be an honor and maybe someday, etc.

So, in light of Lou’s humility and the obvious homer question in the first place, I decided to take a look at Piniella’s credentials and see if he does have a legitimate Hall of Fame resume. The credentials are solid in some areas, but a bit light in others. I’ll let you be the judge.

Lou Piniella the Player

As a player, the verdict is a resounding no.

But, that’s the case with most HOF managers who also played the game, with some exceptions like Joe Torre, who appeared in 9 All Star games and was the 1971 NL MVP, and Frank Chance of Tinker to Evers to Chance fame who, with 946 wins as a manager, was clearly voted in for his play at 1B for the last Chicago Cubs World Series winners. Oh, and there’s this Frank Robinson guy too.

While Piniella sports a nice .291 lifetime batting average, he never hit over 12 HR in a season and was largely overshadowed on his own team by the likes of Reggie Jackson, Thurman Munson, and later Dave Winfield.

Lou Piniella the Manager

So, any argument for Piniella’s inclusion in the Hall of Fame hinges primarily on his 23 years as a manager with the New York Yankees, Cincinnati Reds, Seattle Mariners, Tampa Bay Devil Rays, and Chicago Cubs, with his 10 year tenure with the Mariners standing by far as his longest with any one team.

Piniella currently ranks 14^th all-time in wins by a manager with 1,835. I say currently, because Bruce Bochy is still managing the San Francisco Giants and ranks 20^th on the list with 1,592 wins, so he could conceivably pass Piniella with maybe three more successful seasons. Other current managers like Mike Sciosia, Buck Showalter, Terry Francona, and Ron Gardenhire won’t be in the 1,800 win range for 7 to 10 years.

Of the 13 managers with more career wins than Piniella, 12 are in the Hall of Fame.

Gene Mauch, who managed the Philadelphia Phillies, Montreal Expos, Minnesota Twins, and California Angels from 1960 to 1987, is not in the HOF despite winning 1,902 games. What is clearly missing from Mauch’s resume is a championship. In 26 years managing, he never took a team to the World Series. In fact, his 1982 and 1986 California Angels were the only teams he skippered to even a division title. The 82 Angels lost to the Milwaukee Brewers in the AL Championship (3-2), while the 86 Angels famously blew a 3-1 lead to the Boston Red Sox in the AL Championship.

Every other manager with more wins than Piniella has appeared in the World Series at least three times. The average number of World Series wins for the 12 HOF managers ahead of Piniella on the wins list is 3.5, with 7 a piece for New York Yankees managers Joe McCarthy and Casey Stengall skewing the average a bit.

It is worth noting that recent inductee Bobby Cox is only one of two managers on the list with just a single World Series title, but he did win 15 division titles and appeared in 5 WS with the Braves.

Leo Durocher is the other. He took both the Brooklyn Dodgers and the New York Giants to the World Series, and he was the manager of the Dodgers when Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in 1947.

Minus Cox, Durocher, Bucky Harris, and Bill McKechnie, the remaining 8 on the list have all won a minimum of 3 World Series.

Now that we have some context to the profiles of the managers in the hall who are ahead of Piniella on the all-time wins list, let’s take a look at Lou’s credentials.

Piniella managed three different teams, the Reds, Mariners, and Cubs, to a total of 6 division titles. In the era of the Wild Card, his 2000 second place Mariners also made the playoffs for a total of 7 playoff appearances in his career. The 1990 Reds won the World Series, sweeping Tony Larussa’s Oakland A’s in four games.

Piniella had winning records in all of his stops in the big leagues, with the exception of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, and no one could have won with the talent they were putting on the field in the early 2000’s when Vince Naimoli owned the team.

And, he was the last manager to lead the Chicago Cubs to the playoffs back in 2008. Cub fans will tell you that just getting Chicago in the playoffs is reason enough to be voted into Cooperstown.

Still, I’m going to say Sweet Lou is a borderline HOF as a manager. The wins total is compelling. The postseason record is OK. Another World Series appearance or two would really help seal the deal.

Lou Piniella as a Player AND a Manager

So, what about HOF managers who also played long careers and put up decent numbers?

Even among HOF managers, who are clearly in the hall primarily for the combination of their playing and managing, it’s difficult to find someone with a lighter postseason managing resume than Piniella.

Clark “The Old Fox” Griffin, who is 22^nd on the all-time wins list, won only one pennant as the player/manager of the 1901 Chicago White Sox, but he also won 237 games as a starting pitcher, while also playing 485 games from 1891 to 1914 in the OF.

Al Lopez might be the best argument for including Piniella in the hall. At 25^th in managerial wins, he led the 1945 Cleveland Indians and 1959 White Sox to pennants, but never won a World Series. But, to be fair, Lopez does have the 8^th highest winning percentage of all time for managers at .584, compared to Piniella’s .517.

Lopez’s 19 year career at catcher for the Brooklyn Robins, Boston Bees, Pittsburgh Pirates, and Cleveland Indians is mediocre at best, with a lifetime .261/.326/.337 line and a whopping 51 HR.

Piniella’s .291/.333/.409 with 102 HR and 1705 hits surely beats out Lopez.

Do two pennants trump one World Series? Ask the Cubs or the Mariners what they’d rather have.

Conclusion: It’s iffy.

I think if you take into account Piniella’s playing time and his managing, he should get into the Hall of Fame. He will be eligible next year, as he retired in 2010, so we’ll see what percentage he gets with his first shot as a manager (he was actually on the HOF ballot one time as a player and then he was removed once he started managing).

But, I also don’t think the argument for his inclusion in Cooperstown is a slam dunk. By comparison to this year’s inductees, Piniella is no Cox, LaRussa, or Torre by any stretch of the imagination. The memories of this year’s class may hurt Piniella’s immediate chances of getting into Cooperstown.